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GENETICZZ

The reason snipers kill the game. Kind of.

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Hello,

so basically I want to explain you guys, why snipers actually do kill the game. This is actually based on Feedback which new players gave to me.

So let's start with a fresh and new player, which is hyped to play the game. Let's imagine him joining Colorado and he's like, ok, let's see what we can do. 
The first thing he's going to notice is the huge amount of snipers shooting around. He literally has nothing in his GI and he can't do anything against people with snipers.

Let's get in my position actually now:
I have no snipers in my GI, I can't play Colorado because there's only people with snipers there now which I can't do anything against since they just  snipe me over long range.
So, as soon as I see that the PvP Servers are empty (AR ones) I actually have to exit the game, because I can not play the game because I don't have snipers. And snipers are very expensive.

My point now: New players will quickly quit and uninstall the game, because they can't fight against snipers with nothing. I really do think snipers have to be a rare thing, even in open world. There are alot of people who can't afford snipers, which will result in quitting the game, which is bad.

 

We HAVE to do something against snipers, no matter what. Something has to happen. New players are tired of getting sniped over and over again which I fully understand. ^^

 

Hope you get my point,

 

Cheers.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, GENETICZZ said:

....

I agree. I currently have about a thousand snipers on my GI. It is virtually impossible to get into any server with more than 10 players and not get sniper shots.

And now snipers like VSS and Mauser SP66 are ridiculously easy to use. VSS has a very high firing rate and Mauser has the same bullet drop for 200, 250, 300m.

Maybe increase AR headshot damage or make snipers more slow to get another shot.

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@GENETICZZ You do have a valid point but at this time in the development of the game making them rare is pointless as this has turned into a sniper jump fest in all the servers and since the hit box issue still an issue the playing field will remain unbalanced for any new players and yes they will uninstall the game.  I try to help with having sub servers that are PVE only so that new players that sub to me can and do farm all the gear they need as well as xp and skill tree leveling.

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Ok, i understand your point, but, beginners has beginner servers to play in they start of the game, there are some pve servers to loot, the game doesn't need to be easy, in my opinion it have to be medium to hard, we know the start is hard, hard to find loot, hard to find people to play with, but it's the game, imagine a player who plays for 2 months and already have a lot of stuff to go pvp, the game would be easier then, in my opinion it have to be hard, beginners first have to take full skill, on the start they can farm for pay a pve server, loot as many as they can.

Now on snipers on the game, for me, it's good, i like open world pvp, i like snipers and no, it's hard to kill someone on long range, it's not easy, if you see someone killing a lot it's because that player plays for a long time... If sniper be rare the sniper price will increse more and more, i think the prices are still high, if you log in with a vss (100k-130k) you know you die soon, so we keep respawning, in 10 respawn we spend 1m only on sniper, to pvp, this is a lot of gold, sniper is better for pvp, how will you kill someone on Colorado (most of times you see someone on long range) with a AR ? You will spend like 2 magazines trying to kill him, sniper is one shot on the head only, it's hard that shot, but it's easier than AR, i don't know why people don't play AR only, sometimes they play, sometimes they don't, so, snipers are good to me, i only want to have more players on pvp servers, in my region (SA) they play on EU pvp servers, i would like they playing on SA servers, everyone knows ping is high out of each reagion, i would suggest a ping limit even in EU servers, lag players can kill someone behing a shield, because of ping.

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Hmm I agree but this information is nothing new; might sound odd but for me this is also very logical. What really CAN be done, SHOULD be done and WILL be done is an entire different story. Don't get me wrong, I am not using this as an excuse but it's is a very, very complicated and sensitive situation.

Have we tried stuff already? Yes, we have. But also like @Bravodog mentioned which is totally true; the game dynamically got to this point due to factors like the common spawn rate of snipers.

I also do know that certain people in the team have different point of views and ideas on this topic and once again like I said: it's a very complicated situation.

However, I can at least speak for myself and this is my point of view:

 

Is it an issue? Yes. However, consider other factors: This is ONLY in the Open World game-mode, The game (for the first time since Steam release) has been growing - maybe some new players are able to "get into it" - how else would the game be growing. Now you guys are going to say: Yeah but Open World is the most played game-mode, and the game could potentially grow even more if this wasn't happening and that is TRUE but again; it's all point of views, possible outcomes, discussions, opinions, scenarios. Unfortunately there is nothing that says here: this is the fix. It's not as easy as that at all.

In my opinion and based on my experience I do have a pretty good image of "how to handle" this challenge. In games, but mainly in situations related to currencies and quantities of goods; in this case the snipers, I think it's the worst mistake we can make to do any abrupt changes. Anything that we'd want to do to improve this situation has to be in little steps towards a goal. This will always allow us to take a step back, or make a bigger step forward if we see that the step works.

The only scenario I'd see an abrupt change actually "fix" this is if the game has too little amount of players and we end up doing a wipe, fresh start and have the snipers rare from that start.

Let's just not be negative and go out from the scenario above. I don't like to think that way although it is a realistic scenario. At this moment maybe not as much as the game (like I mentioned earlier) IS actually growing.

Now, steps I see us take in the near future can be (and not in this particular order) as following:

  • Improve weapon mechanics: This can and will lead to better assault rifles mainly, but also sub machine guns and pistols I see being really affected by this. With improvements here I mean to realistically improve weapons to a point they are actually working as they should, and shoot where the player aims. Once again take assault rifles here as an example. The first change here I'd see happening is removing the random (bullshit) spread and actually implement recoil patterns for every weapon. This allows players to "learn" any pattern for any weapon and this way hit more bullets. It makes the game more skillful and also when a player is good with a certain weapon allowing him to "fight" the snipers more as he will be able to hit more bullets. Further on improvements I'd also like to see is more customization and use towards attachments. Also mainly for assault rifles and sub machine guns.
  • Improve player hit boxes: speaks for itself. This might not necessary be a "Nerf" towards snipers but I do think that skilled players will be able to hit more bullets with their weapons on other players. This is overall a point that should be done either way but I'd still like to mention it as it does play a role.
  • Buff certain assault rifles, this is a very "big" point so to say but something that can be done to increase the use of them once again.
  • Nerf certain snipers, it is an option.
  • Give players more "ways" to get rid of their items / snipers. I have had a lot of ideas and suggestions based on this and examples I can mention is: allow players to trade in their items / snipers and get X back. Basically create ways and systems that could thin out the overall sniper amount.
  • Make snipers more rare. This alone won't change anything as it's not going to change the amount that's already out there although it is worth to mention and has to be done in combination with points above.
  • Buff certain armor or helmets, just so players don't get one-shot as much.
  • Improve the map / certain areas so that there is more "cover" and less use for snipers.

 

Just to be clear here: the points above are all from my own perspective and just some examples but could contribute in at least making the situation better.

I especially like the first part about weapon mechanics. I think this can be a HUGE game changer for New Z. If you compare weapon mechanics at this moment in New Z with other games, New Z is pretty garbage. It's something WE can quite easily improve in my opinion.

 

Just my points ;)

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I agree in improving weapon mechanics, make players to be skilled.

I don't agree in removing 1 sniper shot on head kill, it would decrease a lot the use of snipers (best weapon)

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2 hours ago, Sven said:

Improve weapon mechanics: This can and will lead to better assault rifles mainly, but also sub machine guns and pistols I see being really affected by this. With improvements here I mean to realistically improve weapons to a point they are actually working as they should, and shoot where the player aims. Once again take assault rifles here as an example. The first change here I'd see happening is removing the random (bullshit) spread and actually implement recoil patterns for every weapon. This allows players to "learn" any pattern for any weapon and this way hit more bullets. It makes the game more skillful and also when a player is good with a certain weapon allowing him to "fight" the snipers more as he will be able to hit more bullets. Further on improvements I'd also like to see is more customization and use towards attachments. Also mainly for assault rifles and sub machine guns.

Yea. We have Ak with better spread than a Sig Sauer. 
If you put all the options in a rifle and play against a sniper at 50m the advantage remains his.

I would love to see rifles being used as rifles and not shotguns like now.

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3 hours ago, Sven said:

Hmm I agree but this information is nothing new; might sound odd but for me this is also very logical. What really CAN be done, SHOULD be done and WILL be done is an entire different story. Don't get me wrong, I am not using this as an excuse but it's is a very, very complicated and sensitive situation.

Have we tried stuff already? Yes, we have. But also like @Bravodog mentioned which is totally true; the game dynamically got to this point due to factors like the common spawn rate of snipers.

I also do know that certain people in the team have different point of views and ideas on this topic and once again like I said: it's a very complicated situation.

However, I can at least speak for myself and this is my point of view:

 

Is it an issue? Yes. However, consider other factors: This is ONLY in the Open World game-mode, The game (for the first time since Steam release) has been growing - maybe some new players are able to "get into it" - how else would the game be growing. Now you guys are going to say: Yeah but Open World is the most played game-mode, and the game could potentially grow even more if this wasn't happening and that is TRUE but again; it's all point of views, possible outcomes, discussions, opinions, scenarios. Unfortunately there is nothing that says here: this is the fix. It's not as easy as that at all.

In my opinion and based on my experience I do have a pretty good image of "how to handle" this challenge. In games, but mainly in situations related to currencies and quantities of goods; in this case the snipers, I think it's the worst mistake we can make to do any abrupt changes. Anything that we'd want to do to improve this situation has to be in little steps towards a goal. This will always allow us to take a step back, or make a bigger step forward if we see that the step works.

The only scenario I'd see an abrupt change actually "fix" this is if the game has too little amount of players and we end up doing a wipe, fresh start and have the snipers rare from that start.

Let's just not be negative and go out from the scenario above. I don't like to think that way although it is a realistic scenario. At this moment maybe not as much as the game (like I mentioned earlier) IS actually growing.

Now, steps I see us take in the near future can be (and not in this particular order) as following:

  • Improve weapon mechanics: This can and will lead to better assault rifles mainly, but also sub machine guns and pistols I see being really affected by this. With improvements here I mean to realistically improve weapons to a point they are actually working as they should, and shoot where the player aims. Once again take assault rifles here as an example. The first change here I'd see happening is removing the random (bullshit) spread and actually implement recoil patterns for every weapon. This allows players to "learn" any pattern for any weapon and this way hit more bullets. It makes the game more skillful and also when a player is good with a certain weapon allowing him to "fight" the snipers more as he will be able to hit more bullets. Further on improvements I'd also like to see is more customization and use towards attachments. Also mainly for assault rifles and sub machine guns.
  • Improve player hit boxes: speaks for itself. This might not necessary be a "Nerf" towards snipers but I do think that skilled players will be able to hit more bullets with their weapons on other players. This is overall a point that should be done either way but I'd still like to mention it as it does play a role.
  • Buff certain assault rifles, this is a very "big" point so to say but something that can be done to increase the use of them once again.
  • Nerf certain snipers, it is an option.
  • Give players more "ways" to get rid of their items / snipers. I have had a lot of ideas and suggestions based on this and examples I can mention is: allow players to trade in their items / snipers and get X back. Basically create ways and systems that could thin out the overall sniper amount.
  • Make snipers more rare. This alone won't change anything as it's not going to change the amount that's already out there although it is worth to mention and has to be done in combination with points above.
  • Buff certain armor or helmets, just so players don't get one-shot as much.
  • Improve the map / certain areas so that there is more "cover" and less use for snipers.

 

Just to be clear here: the points above are all from my own perspective and just some examples but could contribute in at least making the situation better.

I especially like the first part about weapon mechanics. I think this can be a HUGE game changer for New Z. If you compare weapon mechanics at this moment in New Z with other games, New Z is pretty garbage. It's something WE can quite easily improve in my opinion.

 

Just my points ;)

I see. Good points. :D We gotta give new players are first good memorable experience when they join, that's all I want you know. ^^

I heavily agree with snipers being rare. This is a must have because otherwise Open World(huge maps) becomes kind of unplayable for people with low filled GIs, you know.

I like the idea of the trade in thing. This is actually a good idea and makes trading easier.

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2 hours ago, GENETICZZ said:

I see. Good points. :D We gotta give new players are first good memorable experience when they join, that's all I want you know. ^^

I heavily agree with snipers being rare. This is a must have because otherwise Open World(huge maps) becomes kind of unplayable for people with low filled GIs, you know.

I like the idea of the trade in thing. This is actually a good idea and makes trading easier.

Trade thing is just an example of very over complicated concepts I came up with.

2 examples (quickly explained) I can give are:

The "overcharged" idea. Basically we'd create an "overcharged" / "upgraded" variant for each weapon. These variants are basically same weapon, with some different visuals and better stats. There is charge as these would apply as a value on the weapon: charge runs out when using: when charge 0% you'd have to "re-charge" it again or it's useless.
Then, to charge weapon you'd need an item, in this example a weapon shard. Every weapon has a shard and to get shards for a particular weapon you'd have to trade that particular weapon in with an NPC. In example: player trades in 100 VSS's and gets a 100 VSS shards. Then to charge an overcharged VSS he'd have to use 10 of these shards.
Now, to get a normal VSS "overcharged" all you'd have to do is trade in enough VSS's to get for example 100 VSS shards, that you can then turn into an upgraded / overcharged VSS.
Sorry if it sounds complicated but this is a GREAT way to get rid of numerous amounts of weapons.

Just some points.

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9 hours ago, Sven said:

Improve weapon mechanics: This can and will lead to better assault rifles mainly, but also sub machine guns and pistols I see being really affected by this. With improvements here I mean to realistically improve weapons to a point they are actually working as they should, and shoot where the player aims. Once again take assault rifles here as an example. The first change here I'd see happening is removing the random (bullshit) spread and actually implement recoil patterns for every weapon. This allows players to "learn" any pattern for any weapon and this way hit more bullets. It makes the game more skillful and also when a player is good with a certain weapon allowing him to "fight" the snipers more as he will be able to hit more bullets. Further on improvements I'd also like to see is more customization and use towards attachments. Also mainly for assault rifles and sub machine guns.

I like this idea due to the fact that if you improve the mechanics of the weapons, you will vastly improve the overall game experience for all modes. Who is to say, with the proper scope on a SMG set to single fire, you can't have almost the same chance of a good hit as a sniper.

9 hours ago, Sven said:

Improve player hit boxes: speaks for itself. This might not necessary be a "Nerf" towards snipers but I do think that skilled players will be able to hit more bullets with their weapons on other players. This is overall a point that should be done either way but I'd still like to mention it as it does play a role.

This will also improve the overall game experience. Too many times I've fired a weapon, only to have the shot go flying off in an almost 90° angle from where I was aiming.

9 hours ago, Sven said:
  • Buff certain assault rifles, this is a very "big" point so to say but something that can be done to increase the use of them once again.
  • Nerf certain snipers, it is an option.

I don't believe that buffing certain assault rifles if you improve their hit box. and IMO, nerfing the snipers might be a mistake.

9 hours ago, Sven said:

Give players more "ways" to get rid of their items / snipers. I have had a lot of ideas and suggestions based on this and examples I can mention is: allow players to trade in their items / snipers and get X back. Basically create ways and systems that could thin out the overall sniper amount.

This is an idea that I've been bouncing around the forums for a while. Only, instead of trading them, have a vending machine, like in the Trade Lounges, so players can 'sell' their excess inventory at a reduced rate. I'd say players would receive between a 10% - 15% below the available price in the Marketplace. (Of course you could even make it a higher deduction but nothing over 25%.) I have heard about a sort of 'black market' on discord for buying and selling items for GC for items available in Survival. Since there is currently no currency in Survival, this is circumventing the system that is set up. There are only 2 ways players should be able to acquire items in Survival. Farming and Trading. (I know this comment will be very unpopular but it needs to be addressed)

10 hours ago, Sven said:

Buff certain armor or helmets, just so players don't get one-shot as much.

This could make for a more even playing field. If you are wearing top of the line armor and helmet, you should be better protected.

10 hours ago, Sven said:

Improve the map / certain areas so that there is more "cover" and less use for snipers.

@Sven, I am going to leave this one alone. You and I have had a number of conversations about it. You know what I think so, nuff said.

As you said, these are just some of my ideas. I also like the idea of improved weapon mechanics. Here's a thought, maybe, after the weapons are improved, you guys can work on improved mechanics for vehicles? 😜 (Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation)

Overall, I agree with what you have said @Sven.

Have a Nice Day!!! 😎

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11 hours ago, CampersRUs said:

This is an idea that I've been bouncing around the forums for a while. Only, instead of trading them, have a vending machine, like in the Trade Lounges, so players can 'sell' their excess inventory at a reduced rate. I'd say players would receive between a 10% - 15% below the available price in the Marketplace. (Of course you could even make it a higher deduction but nothing over 25%.) I have heard about a sort of 'black market' on discord for buying and selling items for GC for items available in Survival. Since there is currently no currency in Survival, this is circumventing the system that is set up. There are only 2 ways players should be able to acquire items in Survival. Farming and Trading. (I know this comment will be very unpopular but it needs to be addressed)

Some time ago I wanted a market that sold players' weapons/itens bought by NPC and placed on a "shelf". The purchase amount by the NPC would be set by the stock. The sale value as well. The idea at the time was to eliminate trade servers and trade via browser to put trade players in the game.
A lot of time is wasted selling a product via chat. And if you want to sale/buy some item you can't stay all the time in the trade lounge.

This will help player to buy and sell itens and make the guy who have 1000 SVD but even a 10 heavy sell snipers to buy heavy.

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